Amerikkka has never been a real democracy. It just somehow keeps getting more dictatorial by the day.
The other option is that they might survive, I guess. When did pure conjecture replace facts?
It’s ok. It wasn’t going to survive a Trump presidency anyway.
America has ALWAYS been an oligarchy masquerading as a democracy. The mask is dropping further down every day.
American democracy has not survived.
FIFY
American democracy won’t survive the next flu season. It’s pretty fucking fragile.
Starting from the premise we have a democracy at this point is flawed.
what democracy?
American democracy didn’t survive the first month of this year.
American democracy didn’t survive the constitution that only allowed rich white males any voice.
Is that really what it says?
It’s the political version of ‘Weekend at Bernie’s’ … America killed democracy a long time ago and they’ve been parading around the dead body for years pretending that everything is OK.
As the years go by it’s getting harder and harder to get people to ignore the rotting stinking corpse they keep dressing up in American flags and uniforms.
I’d argue it died in November ‘24
It died March 4, 1789
More like November 2000
Shit, it’s basically all Reagan’s fault if we wanna get down to it.
Well, that, and Nixon, and Milton Friedman. But yeah.
We don’t need to imagine. He’s doing it right now.
Who says it survived the last war in the middle east?
American democracy is an oxymoron
It died on November 5th, 2024. We are just in the embers.
To be fair it had been on life support for decades.
Yeah this is the thing. Trump isn’t where things went south, but he sure accelerated it. In a working democracy, he would have been laughed out of the room. But decades of neocon politics have deteriorated the American society so much in so many aspects that he got elected
Yup. Thanks, non-voters.
“Your choice is between Hitler 2.0 and our Corporately anointed puppet. Remember to exercise YOUR VOICE and vote!!”
What nonsense. People taking no action are no where near people choosing fascism, are you mad? And a choice between cartoon fascism that should clearly be opposed and festering corporate fascism is not a choice.
Not voting IS VOTING. What kind of mental gymnastics has the AI antagonist machine got you on? This non-voter talking point is EVERYWHERE, and people keep spreading it.
When a system is through in through corrupt the only moral action is to not participate in it.
Let me share something with you to give a small hint at what stage you’re in with your “voting” and “government”
Who knows, maybe you’ll even recognize it?!
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."
We all know that Harris had a path to victory and she didnt take it. I suppose its easier for you to demonize the voters who tried to pressure their party to do what we all know is the right thing than it is to pressure our leaders to run a competent and moral campaign.
So you’re just lazy and unable to effect meaningful change, beyond shouting into a void on an anonymous forum, right. I imagine if we all just mute your complaints you’ll kick your dog and blame it for the loss, so I guess we’ll just wait for you to whine yourself out. I’m not in favor of dog kicking.
Yeah, how dare he make a comment on a forum all about making comments.
I suppose its easier for you to demonize the voters who tried to pressure their party to do what we all know is the right thing than it is to pressure our leaders to run a competent and moral campaign.
They may have convinced themselves or others that this is what they did, but it was, in fact nothing of the sort. All that they did was open the door to someone who keeps a book of Hitler speeches on his bedside table. Non-voters are just shy of collaborators and absolute traitors to vulnerable people, as well as humanity at large.
So you’re just lazy and unable to effect meaningful change, beyond shouting into a void on an anonymous forum, right.
I’ve engaged in protest efforts and volunteering to help people in my community, while non-voters only engaged in performative bullshit that objectively made the genocide that they suddenly started caring about worse and put us on a path to losing the last vestiges of democracy, not to mention what appears likely to be WW3.
I imagine if we all just mute your complaints you’ll kick your dog and blame it for the loss, so I guess we’ll just wait for you to whine yourself out. I’m not in favor of dog kicking.
Wow. You’re classy. I hope your animal abuse mention isn’t projecting your own real-life behavior onto others.
You know what would actually be a good way to stop me from making statements like my original one? Take some fucking responsibility for the harms that you have voluntarily contributed to and do something - anything - to actually try to meaningfully make the world a better place.
What do you do to help people in your community? Anything at all or, is engagement limited to stroking your ego and defending actions that do nothing to improve the human condition but let you tell yourself that you’re better than other people because they don’t have as myopic of an understanding of the world as you do?
They may have convinced themselves or others that this is what they did, but it was, in fact nothing of the sort.
Thats not for you to decide or dictate.
First, want to respond to my question? Are you actively doing anything meaningful to help change the world in a positive manner? Or are you just congratulating yourself for playing the electoral equivalent of The Royal Sampler?
Thats not for you to decide or dictate.
Facts are facts, regardless of how you want to feel about them. I don’t decide them any more than you do. Objectively, the world, as well as Palestine, is in a worse place than it would have been under Harris.
You chose to throw democracy, neurodivergent people, trans people, people of color, sick people, the people of Palestine, the people of Ukraine, and plenty of others under the bus with your intention choice not to oppose fascism.
You could say that you weren’t warned or explicitly told what would happen if you helped a Hitler fanboy get elected but, that would be a lie. If you insist on playing the same game as a Brexiteer, be my guest, but you’ll still be called out until you put in the slightest bit of effort to fix the century of progess that you’ve flushed down the toilet.
The only real question is whether you were a rube or if you were acting maliciously, like the Acolytes of Accelerationism. That’s something only you can answer.
You clearly know nothing about the actual motives of brexit voters. but call other people short-sighted.
The choice was Trump, or a continuation of the political/economic ideology that made Trump inevitable. Implicit in t he act of voting is the giving of consent. This outcome has been decades in the making. And yet you blame ‘non-voters’ for all of the ills of fossil-fuel powered neo-liberal capitalism, and then have the cheek to call others short-sighted. Grow up.
First, want to respond to my question? Are you actively doing anything meaningful to help change the world in a positive manner?
Oh is this a homework assignment I’m required to do? Then Gosh, yes Sir! I am, all the time. Do we want to phallus measure each others social impact and see who has the right to talk, is that how this works? I think my social work resume is pretty far above average. Pretty likely better than yours.
But are you pretending you’re able to be convinced by anything I say? I think you’re simply here to troll and get some jollies by being angry. Some people just enjoy being angry. Or maybe its that you are looking for anything to not acknowledge that you got played into maintaining a lame status quo, that you explicitely supported genocide probably without even bothering to try to push back, and that you still lost. Same as everyone else.
It amazes me that you and your ilk are not even bothering to even ask why the dem candidates made a choice to support genocide, you are on lemmy whining why didnt everyone else support genocide and you see nothing wrong with that, and assign zero blame to the leaders who made a choice to support genocide. You hold them to no account whatsoever.
Pathetic.
Non voters made a conscious decision to allow a switch from democracy to authoritarianism and put us on a path to totalitarianism. They are solely responsible and I will never forgive them for this transgression. Not voting was childish.
I see it now-- so if more voters had fewer morals, lower standards, and were more open to manipulation, we’d have better dem leaders doing less awful things. Makes perfect sense. And-- If Harris were in charge today theres no way she’d be supporting this zionist adventure, right? No way. Not a chance.
Ah yes… The moral high-ground of…
checks notes
Enabling fascism by helping the guy, who stated that Netanyahu should “finish the job” and publicly discussed turning Gaza into hotels, elected…
If you were any more in denial, you’d be in danger of crocodile attacks.
likewise.
There is no “likewise”. You suck at the trolley problem, plain and simple.
‘You mean my inaction at a time when I could have stopped the end of democracy actually ended democracy? Must be bidens fault somehow!’ - dumbass American voters
No one chose to be born into this world. No one should be forced to play human-created nonsense games.
Keep being mad and feeding these machines.
True. But like it or not, we are in that situation. No one has said it was ‘ideal’ in any sense, but we are in it. No one chooses their nation of their birth either. If the machine is so bad, people have a choice to leave. If not, they have a responsibility to recognize and react to the situation to make it better, or at very least to make sure it doesn’t get worse. Ignoring it in the hope it’ll go away is how we got here today. Willful ignorance and inaction is a choice. Educating oneself as to the consequences of our choices, actions or ignorance and apathy are two sides of the same coin.
Which is unfortunately quite poetic. Refusing to vote has ensured they will no longer be able to vote.
Best outcome would be if Iran and the US took out each other’s government, but they always seem weirdly unwilling to go after the leadership if they have an option to kill soldiers and civilians instead, even when it’s clearly the leaders who pose a problem.
Have we tried arming insurgents and having them overthrow the Government? Or possibly just a little coup?
Oh. Ok nvm.
Oh. This’ll be the death blow? We’ve had so many now.
American democracy was cooked in 2004 and it’s wild that anyone would pretend otherwise.
In 2000. Al Gore won that election, but Republicans cheated.
Not so fun fact: Even back then, a certain Clarence Thomas was involved in the Supreme Court decision that prevented a recount of votes in Florida (source), which would likely have resulted in Al Gore’s election victory. And: Also even back then, this Supreme Justice was associated with a certain billionaire named Harlan Crow who supported him with various favors - he continues to do so to this day.
Interesting but the source don’t say he would have won what I can see. Was that later established?
It was a 5-4 decision. Thomas agreed with the majority, or rather, his vote constituted the necessary majority.
With this decision the Supreme Court overruled the Florida Supreme Court and effectively stopped the recount of votes, resulting in George W. Bush winning Florida’s electoral votes and thus the presidency. Here you can find a summary.
Whether Al Gore would actually have won with the recount is impossible to say with absolute certainty in retrospect, since the votes were not recounted. However, it was a neck-and-neck race, and numerous indicators suggested that Gore would have won - it was considered likely at the time. And that is precisely why it is scandalous imo that the Supreme Court prevented a manual recount, as this would have made it easy to verify the will of the Florida citizens without any disadvantages.
Overall, I think it’s fair to say that many aspects of this election were rather flimsy.
If you’re interested in the somewhat strange events surrounding this election, you can find the complete documentary “Unprecedented: The 2000 Presidential Election” here. This documentary is a bit sensationalist in places, but it does highlight some of the rather undemocratic methods that were used.
Hope that’s what you were looking for.
I mean, that was the shot across the bow, but there was a democratic way forward. When democrats completely folded and then he was reeelected 4 years later after making every wrong decision?
There hasn’t been a nonviolent way out of the US’s far-right problem in 20 years.
